Rechargable batteries

Leon · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 967

Yeah, this has been visited time and time again. BUT times change.

I am looking to repair/replace a Makita 2.6 Ah 12 volt battery. Visiting
PrimeCell I am looking at a rebuild price of $47 + $7 s&h plus at least $7
for me to ship to them. Expense, about $61.

Oddly, you can buy completely new with as high or higher amp ratings for
about the same price or less. I am looking at Battery Barn and can get a
new 12 volt increased amp to 3.0 for $60 shipped.
The new battery has a 1 year warranty as opposed to many rebuilds that
warrant the rebuild any where from 30-90 days.

Similarly Batterybank has the battery new for $48 plus $6 for the first
pound, or $54 shipped. They are out of my battery until the middle of
March.

IT seems a no brainer to go new. Although this is not genuine Makita,
neither is the rebuild.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Archived from group: rec>woodworking

nailshooter41 · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 229

Damn Leon... waited less than two hours for a reply before pulling the
trigger?

Needin' that battery for anything else?

;^)

Robert

Leon · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 967

wrote in message @q78g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Damn Leon... waited less than two hours for a reply before pulling the
> trigger?
>
> Needin' that battery for anything else?
>
> ;^)
>
> Robert
>

My finger was awful itchy. I had been surfing for 2 days to save $20. I
thought that if I was making a terrible mistake some one would have
hollered. Any way thanks again Robert.
Do I need it now. Heck no. But If I don't get it now the other one that I
marked as questionable would probably poop out after it realized that it was
my only one. ;~)

Leon · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 967

wrote in message @h25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 25, 5:59 pm, BDBConstruction wrote:
>
>> Have you done one of their 3300 rebuilds? Sounds juicy but wondering
>> if more han 2x price is worth it?
>>
>> Mark
>
> No, not yet. I might... but they didn't have those last time I needed
> batteries.

I saw a 4.0 amp battery rebuild being offered.

nailshooter41 · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 229

On Feb 25, 10:11 pm, RicodJour wrote:

> That's pretty weird. Li-ion batteries are known for holding their
> charges for long periods - the shelf life is measured in years. NiCad
> and NiMH both lose about 1 or 2 percent of their charge per day.

http://www.energizer.com/learning-center/Pages/battery-comparison.aspx

Note that they make NO claims as to the charge holding of the lithium
battery, only that it is lighter, and holds the charge for a long
time. The chart also make a clear delineation when referring to
rechargeable batteries like the NiMH battery you reference for the 1
-2% loss of charge. The lithium battery has no such reference.

> I recently pickes up some Makita Li-ion tools and do notice that they
> drain more quickly in use, but they don't drain at all just sitting
> there.

That last damn drill was such a disappointment I wanted to beat it to
pieces with a hammer. I have no tolerance for tools that don't work.
I got the drill because I liked the feel, and that is certainly
important when you used it primarily as a screw driver.

But what they stress when you buy a lithium powered tool is the fact
that the lithium batteries don't develop a memory. That is their
claim to fame, the fact that you can top them off at will. I didn't
know until this second machine that the fault was the inherent fault
of the batteries and me not understanding their shortcomings.

Check this out it is the most comprehensive look at a lot of
researching I did when trying to return my Makita:

http://tinyurl.com/2ev5x2

I didn't know they had a much more limited life cycle than NiCads when
I popped for $240 for the Makita drill/driver. I didn't know that
they performed best in cooler weather - I live in a heat zone, and
wouldn't care to guess how hot it gets in the tool box every day. Or
on a an asphalt shingle roof, etc.

They work best when you store them at about a half charge. How would
you know that?

You aren't supposed to run the batteries all the way down. That means
when it won't drive that last screw and suddenly stops, you are the
one that gets screwed. Without a damn meter on the battery, how are
you supposed to know until the tool bogs down that you are low on
juice? By then it is too late.

Worse, it says in that document (and I have read it elsewhere) that
lithiums respond best to slow trickle charges. So that means every
time I plug it in to the quick charger I am contributing to its
shorter life. Great.

Look at those charts for ideas of diminishing performance, even under
great conditions.

Nope.. not for me. I was burned once, and although I am sure they
will get the technology where it needs to be, they aren't there yet.

> Battery technology has been a bottleneck for a long time, but there
> does seem to be some interesting developments on the horizon:

Soon I hope - before I need another cordless tool!

Robert

patrick mitchel · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 28

regarding the lithium ion batteries. The cell used in the dewalt lithium
ion is made by a123 company. According to the electric radio control plane
guys, the a123 cell kicks ass. Another way of saying that it takes a high
rate of discharge - can take the high charge too and still have a good # of
cycles before you have to replace them. Now as to self discharge- that I
don't know. They are in such demand that the rc guys will often buy the 36v
dewalt pack and cannibalize them for the cells. Pat

BDBConstruction · Joined: 20 Jan 2008 Posts: 38

On Feb 26, 2:02 pm, "nailshoote...@aol.com"
wrote:

> I could get the Festools, Feins, and others on the job, and I might if
> I was the only one that used them.

Popular subject around here lately, and I too have contemplated the
festool cordless. I dont have a lot of trouble with tools disapearing
as I keep a pretty close eye on stuff and our guys are very honest.
That said, they dont treat tools like I do. I have a real hard time
with them running the NiMH down to dead and actually trying to get the
last turn or two by holding the trigger and cranking the drill like a
screwdriver. I cant tell you the rants I have had over that. It just
boils down to laziness. The second I open the cordless box I plug in
all the chargers and get the low batteries in there. That never
happens unless I do it, hehe. For that reason if I were to buy a
festool it would be mine and mine only.

If festool came out with an impact I would probably cave immediately,
Mark

toolman946 via CraftKB.co · Joined: 25 Dec 2007 Posts: 30

One of my cordless drills is a 3 year old Bosch and one battery has kakked. I
went to a local rebuilder here that I know (Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada) and
he said that the going rate in the industry for a rebuild is $4.50 per cell.
So, a 12v with 10 cells would run $45.00 and the replacement cells would have
a greater mah rating. Since the CDN dollar is about at par with the US dollar
I'd guess the rate should be similar in the US (add shipping costs if the
rebuilder's not local).

--
Message posted via CraftKB.com
http://www.craftkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/woodworking/200802/1

nailshooter41 · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 229

On Feb 27, 10:16 am, Charlie Self wrote:

> Yes. For a pro, the NiMH may be OK, except for the shorter
> lifespan...and that may not hold true with every battery.

One thing that this thread caused me to do was to read up on some of
the battery technologies. More than the comment I posted above about
them being a "work in progress", they are very much a rapidly changing
technology. Apparently, we are stuck with the current offerings only
because of price constraints.

>
> You probably wouldn't want the drill I have: it's the 12 volt, a bit
> light for contracting, but, IMO, nearly ideal for a woodworking shop.
> Hell, I did an article on that subject years ago, and I see no reason
> to change my opinion, especially with better batteries on the market
> now. For 95.9%, or more, of woodworking, and 100% of hobbby
> woodworking, 12 volts is sufficient.

I think your thoughts are reflected more on the job site than you
think, Charlie. There has been a shift in the way cordless drills are
looked at on job. Most of us used to buy the cordless drills based on
battery size because the larger battery sized drills were the only
ones that could deliver the torque needed to drive longer screws.

But as batteries and drill motors have gotten better in their cycle
times, and they deliver more power for longer times, lighter drills
are more and more what I see on the job. I don't know anyone that is
pleased to haul around a 19.2 - 24 volt drill anymore. Even in light
commercial, you just don't need that much power all day long, and it
is no fun to wag all that weight around. For all day use, I like my
14.4s, and the all have a lot of torque these days.

It wasn't that many years ago (12-15?) that most your 14.4 drills
would bore both 2 1/8 lock holes in a door. When I hung a door that
had to be bored and mortised, I always took my corded drill with me as
I knew I wouldn't finish with the cordless unless I had another
battery, and I didn't want to burn the battery by draining it all at
once by drilling a couple of large holes.

Got the DeWalt 18v, and problems were over. It waltzed through the
holes, including the plunger and strike holes with no sign of fading.
Imagine my surprise when the next drill I bought, a 14.4 did the same
thing and delivered the same torque.

> up--I haven't checked recently, but something in the back of my mind
> is clicking off "48 volts" or something close to that for a top end
> these days. The woodworking exceptions are for cabinet installers,
> with maybe 18 volts needed there to keep going all day on big jobs.

Even when I do cabinet installs, the 14.4 works fine for me, and is
less bulky if I need to screw jambs together. I have not replaced the
old 18v drill, and probably won't.

A big push is on to get contractors up to 36 volt tools. Why, I don't
know. If I need to have a tool run all day, I wouldn't consider a 36
volt tool. They are massive, huge tools. If I needed that much power
for an extended period I would be back at corded. I can see those
tools being considered special need tools, but not anything else. The
case that the 36v drill/saw combo fits in looks like a steamer trunk
to me.

And as another comment, (Mark - your thoughts?) I don't like the
battery powered saws except for a few things. They will make a
reasonable amount of cuts and are for light work only. I had an 18v
recip saw, and it was a total waste of time. It didn't make an hour
in a kitchen demo cutting through beams and headers. It was returned.

As for the circular saws, they can be pretty handy, and I actually
like them for light duty. My problem with them is that they are not
accurate cutters, most being sleeved bearings to cut down on the
friction to save battery life. To me they feel like a $39 Skil saw
when you use them, and the wandering cuts they make after a using them
for a few months makes it worse.

They also have a tendency for premature death if you are cutting
material that has a lot of glue, knots, or is old and dry. Worse,
they lose their blade speed as they drain, making chip out a real
problem. They still have a place, though.

I laugh a little when I think of the manufacturers pushing the tools
they think will sell, without much R&D. Maybe even tools that were
good in theory, but lousy in execution.

Remember the battery powered PC routers? What a joke. I saw the tool
at "demo days" or some such promo at WC, and the shiny new PC rep told
me that PC was moving more and more to battery powered tools, and he
could see a time in the near future where the "charger would replace
the extension cord" for power. Yeah, right.

Do they even make that battery powered router anymore?

Robert

FrozenNorth · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 69

nailshooter41@aol.com took a can of maroon spray paint on February 27, 2008
12:10 pm and wrote the following:

>
> I laugh a little when I think of the manufacturers pushing the tools
> they think will sell, without much R&D. Maybe even tools that were
> good in theory, but lousy in execution.
>
> Remember the battery powered PC routers? What a joke. I saw the tool
> at "demo days" or some such promo at WC, and the shiny new PC rep told
> me that PC was moving more and more to battery powered tools, and he
> could see a time in the near future where the "charger would replace
> the extension cord" for power. Yeah, right.
>
Coming soon, the battery powered battery charger.
Wink

--
Lits Slut #9
Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.

Swingman · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 497

"Charlie Self" wrote

> now. For 95.9%, or more, of woodworking, and 100% of hobbby
> woodworking, 12 volts is sufficient.

LOL ... I've got a 3.6 volt Black & Decker "PivotDriver" that I
always grab for quickie cabinet "hardware" jobs, like mounting slides on the
sides of drawers, or under drawer hardware for those snap-in undermount
drawer slides ... did just that to 22 drawers in a kitchen in new
construction just this morning.

This little "Harry Homeowner" grade tool will drive a couple hundred 7/16"
screws into maple drawer sides on one "versapack" charge, weighs less than
10 oz, and when the power runs out on the last drawer, can be used as a
screwdriver in a pinch ... AAMOF, that is a handy feature because I can
drive a screw most of the way home on the battery, then torque it down just
right, by hand, without removing the bit from the screw ... gotta love it
for that.

Sheeesssh ... never thought I'd be bragging on a B&D product! Wink

But, if I could find a better cordless screwdriver, this same handy size and
with a more powerful battery, I'd buy it in a New York minute.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Lee Michaels · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 106

"Swingman" wrote
>
> "Charlie Self" wrote
>
>> now. For 95.9%, or more, of woodworking, and 100% of hobbby
>> woodworking, 12 volts is sufficient.
>
> LOL ... I've got a 3.6 volt Black & Decker "PivotDriver" that I
> always grab for quickie cabinet "hardware" jobs, like mounting slides on
> the
> sides of drawers, or under drawer hardware for those snap-in undermount
> drawer slides ... did just that to 22 drawers in a kitchen in new
> construction just this morning.
>
> This little "Harry Homeowner" grade tool will drive a couple hundred 7/16"
> screws into maple drawer sides on one "versapack" charge, weighs less than
> 10 oz, and when the power runs out on the last drawer, can be used as a
> screwdriver in a pinch ... AAMOF, that is a handy feature because I can
> drive a screw most of the way home on the battery, then torque it down
> just
> right, by hand, without removing the bit from the screw ... gotta love it
> for that.
>
> Sheeesssh ... never thought I'd be bragging on a B&D product! Wink

>
> But, if I could find a better cordless screwdriver, this same handy size
> and
> with a more powerful battery, I'd buy it in a New York minute.
>

I used to be an electronic technician and worked with many techies, both
electronic and engineering. Almost all of them had a small, rechargable
screwdriver like the one you mentioned. It was just the thing for getting
into the guts of a metal box. And they would be used to reassemble the box
after the repair was made. It really speeded up the process.

I also used them when taking equipment in and out of 19" racks. I hear in
the old days, they used to use the venerable yankee screwdriver for these
tasks. You don't really want anything bigger than the absolute minimum size
for these tasks.

Another rechargable goodie in the modern techies toolbox is the portable
soldering iron.

BDBConstruction · Joined: 20 Jan 2008 Posts: 38

On Feb 27, 12:10 pm, "nailshoote...@aol.com"
wrote:

> And as another comment, (Mark - your thoughts?) I don't like the
> battery powered saws except for a few things. They will make a
> reasonable amount of cuts and are for light work only. I had an 18v
> recip saw, and it was a total waste of time. It didn't make an hour
> in a kitchen demo cutting through beams and headers. It was returned.
We have never owned a cordless sawzall. The only ones I have used have
been others that were handy to grab and the second I pull the trigger
I usually put them down. I could see where they may be handy but those
times are so few and far between that packing another tool/case around
isnt worth it to us. Every one I have ever run feels like it could
shatter to a million pieces in your hands at any time.

> As for the circular saws, they can be pretty handy, and I actually
> like them for light duty. My problem with them is that they are not
> accurate cutters, most being sleeved bearings to cut down on the
> friction to save battery life. To me they feel like a $39 Skil saw
> when you use them, and the wandering cuts they make after a using them
> for a few months makes it worse.
The only one I have ever used was the PC 19.2 I mentioned. It was
pretty impressive when new. The specs said it would cross cut
something like 200 2x4's on a single charge and it sure seemed like it
would when it was new. It doesnt operate like that any more even with
new batteries. Its real handy for cutting off lookouts on a roof or
trimming rafter tails. Light, and so on. If they werent so damn
expensive I would buy a corded PC trim saw but man those are high.

> Remember the battery powered PC routers? What a joke. I saw the tool

They are still available as far as I know. I see those guys on the
router workshop using them every weekend. Nothing I would have a need
for and I cant say I would use one that often when I am in the shop.

Mark

Charlie Self · Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Posts: 131

On Feb 27, 12:10 pm, "nailshoote...@aol.com"
wrote:
> On Feb 27, 10:16 am, Charlie Self wrote:
>

>
> But as batteries and drill motors have gotten better in their cycle
> times, and they deliver more power for longer times, lighter drills
> are more and more what I see on the job. I don't know anyone that is
> pleased to haul around a 19.2 - 24 volt drill anymore. Even in light
> commercial, you just don't need that much power all day long, and it
> is no fun to wag all that weight around. For all day use, I like my
> 14.4s, and the all have a lot of torque these days.

Yes. No sensible person wants more hanging on his hand or belt than
necessary; if a 14.4 will do the job, an 18 or 24 doesn't make sense.
>

>
> Even when I do cabinet installs, the 14.4 works fine for me, and is
> less bulky if I need to screw jambs together. I have not replaced the
> old 18v drill, and probably won't.
>
> A big push is on to get contractors up to 36 volt tools. Why, I don't
> know. If I need to have a tool run all day, I wouldn't consider a 36
> volt tool. They are massive, huge tools. If I needed that much power
> for an extended period I would be back at corded. I can see those
> tools being considered special need tools, but not anything else. The
> case that the 36v drill/saw combo fits in looks like a steamer trunk
> to me.
>

Money. The tools cost more; replacement batteries cost way more than I
paid for my first car.

>
> Remember the battery powered PC routers? What a joke. I saw the tool
> at "demo days" or some such promo at WC, and the shiny new PC rep told
> me that PC was moving more and more to battery powered tools, and he
> could see a time in the near future where the "charger would replace
> the extension cord" for power. Yeah, right.
>
> Do they even make that battery powered router anymore?
>
I don't think so. I thought it was funny a few months ago when one of
the woodworking magazines did a report on cordless tools, and the
writer said the only thing missing was a battery-powered router. I
took one look at that 19.2 and never even asked for one to try out. It
looked as if it had to be horribly top heavy, not a great condition
for a router.

Charlie Self · Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Posts: 131

On Feb 27, 2:37 pm, "Swingman" wrote:
> "Charlie Self" wrote
>
> > now. For 95.9%, or more, of woodworking, and 100% of hobbby
> > woodworking, 12 volts is sufficient.
>
> LOL ... I've got a 3.6 volt Black & Decker "PivotDriver" that I
> always grab for quickie cabinet "hardware" jobs, like mounting slides on the
> sides of drawers, or under drawer hardware for those snap-in undermount
> drawer slides ... did just that to 22 drawers in a kitchen in new
> construction just this morning.
>
> This little "Harry Homeowner" grade tool will drive a couple hundred 7/16"
> screws into maple drawer sides on one "versapack" charge, weighs less than
> 10 oz, and when the power runs out on the last drawer, can be used as a
> screwdriver in a pinch ... AAMOF, that is a handy feature because I can
> drive a screw most of the way home on the battery, then torque it down just
> right, by hand, without removing the bit from the screw ... gotta love it
> for that.
>
> Sheeesssh ... never thought I'd be bragging on a B&D product! Wink

>
> But, if I could find a better cordless screwdriver, this same handy size and
> with a more powerful battery, I'd buy it in a New York minute.
>

I think Bosch's little L-O 10 volt is probably better, but someone
swiped mine before I could find out.

cordless drill batteries - Milwaukee recall If anyone missed it. I was over at Harbor Freight and was checking the recalls on their tools. One safety recall was for Milwaukee 14.4 v and 18 v NiCd battery packs manufactured between Sept 1999 and February 2004. This is a Milwaukee recall, not an HF r

planer / jigsaw blades, brushes & batteries & service info. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from

Planer & Jigsaw blades, batteries, brushes & service info. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from

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batteries in reverse polarity I rebuilt my cordless drill battery pack and I'll take my lumps for being a moron, but I reversed the polarity of the cells, so the leads are reversed. My drill has a forward and reverse, so will this pack still work, just in opposite direction from norm