table saw tuning

Jeff · Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Posts: 95

I got a new table saw (Powermatic 64 Artisan) and I'm having a tuning
problem. When I push the lumber past the blade, the piece starts to
turn away from the fence toward the blade. As a result, the back of
the piece can be 1/16" of an inch narrower than the front. I can
"correct" this problem with a feather guide, but I'd prefer to tune it
correctly. I assume the problem lies with a slight misalignment of
either the fence or the blade. With my primitive measuring tools -
namely a combo square - both the blade and the fence seem aligned with
the table. Any thoughts?

BTW: The Accu-fence rocks! I can dial up 3" and it cuts 3". With my
old saw, I could never trust the stupid guide. I measured each cut
from blade to fence with my combo square.

Jeff

Archived from group: rec>woodworking

Leon · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 967

"Jeff" wrote in message @o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>I got a new table saw (Powermatic 64 Artisan) and I'm having a tuning
> problem. When I push the lumber past the blade, the piece starts to
> turn away from the fence toward the blade.

This actually sounds like a feed technique problem or bad material that may
be case hardened such that it bows after being cut. To eleminate that
possibility og bad stock try cutting MDF or plywood.

As a result, the back of
> the piece can be 1/16" of an inch narrower than the front. I can
> "correct" this problem with a feather guide, but I'd prefer to tune it
> correctly.

The only place that you want to use a feather board is in front of the
blade, NOT the back side.

I assume the problem lies with a slight misalignment of
> either the fence or the blade. With my primitive measuring tools -
> namely a combo square - both the blade and the fence seem aligned with
> the table. Any thoughts?

You can easily check the blade to slot alignment with your miter gauge.
Attach a piece of wood to the miter gauge so that the end of the wood is
about 3/4" from the blade. Screw a screw into that end of the board so that
it just comes in contact with the side of a tooth on the front of the blade.
Rotate the blade so that the "same" tooth is at the back side, slide the
miter gauge back and compare the measurement again. For the most accuracy
raise the blade to its full up position and be sure to have the saw
unplugged during this process.

Once you are happy with that adjustment adjust the fence to be dead on
parallel to the same miter slot used to align the blade to the miter slot.
You can simply use a piece of wood, thinner than the miter slot, to slide
down the face of the fence into the slot. Check the clearance at several
points if the fence is not parallel the piece of wood should hit the table
surface and not go down into the slot. Make a test cut and adjust
accordingly.

> BTW: The Accu-fence rocks! I can dial up 3" and it cuts 3". With my
> old saw, I could never trust the stupid guide. I measured each cut
> from blade to fence with my combo square.

That is what a decent fence should do.

Kevin · Joined: 05 Jan 2008 Posts: 47

Look into books by Kelly Mehler.

It's worth the $20. We could go over all the steps, but I think you'll find
the book worthwhile.

"Jeff" wrote in message @o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>I got a new table saw (Powermatic 64 Artisan) and I'm having a tuning
> problem. When I push the lumber past the blade, the piece starts to
> turn away from the fence toward the blade. As a result, the back of
> the piece can be 1/16" of an inch narrower than the front. I can
> "correct" this problem with a feather guide, but I'd prefer to tune it
> correctly. I assume the problem lies with a slight misalignment of
> either the fence or the blade. With my primitive measuring tools -
> namely a combo square - both the blade and the fence seem aligned with
> the table. Any thoughts?
>
> BTW: The Accu-fence rocks! I can dial up 3" and it cuts 3". With my
> old saw, I could never trust the stupid guide. I measured each cut
> from blade to fence with my combo square.
>
> Jeff

Garage_Woodworks · Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 74

"Jeff" wrote in message @o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>With my primitive measuring tools -
> namely a combo square - both the blade and the fence seem aligned with
> the table. Any thoughts?

You might want to seriously consider upgrading your 'primitive measuring
tools'. There is an easy way to get your fence dead on balls accurate and
you can then eliminate that as a potential cause of your problem.

http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TS_aligner.htm

--
www.garagewoodworks.com

Jeff · Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Posts: 95

On Feb 25, 10:43 am, "Leon" wrote:
> "Jeff" wrote in message
>
> The only place that you want to use a feather board is in front of the
> blade, NOT the back side.

I didn't specify it's location, but that's where I have it. See, cos I
have this thing about taking a board to the mid section.

Jeff · Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Posts: 95

On Feb 25, 12:28 pm, "Garage_Woodworks" wrote:
> "Jeff" wrote in message
>
> @o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >With my primitive measuring tools -
> > namely a combo square - both the blade and the fence seem aligned with
> > the table. Any thoughts?
>
> You might want to seriously consider upgrading your 'primitive measuring
> tools'. There is an easy way to get your fence dead on balls accurate and
> you can then eliminate that as a potential cause of your problem.
>
> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/TS_aligner.htm
>
> --www.garagewoodworks.com

You have Jr.? I assume you think it was worth 133.00. How often do you
use it?

Chuck Hoffman · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

I have a hunch either your blade is not parallel with the miter slot or the
fence is not parallel with the blade.

Here's how you can fix that for WAY LESS than the prices of some of the
tools recommended by others. Get yourself an adequate dial indicator
(Harbor Freight has them). Cut a square end on piece of narrow hardwood and
screw the housing of the dial indicator to it (it would be better of you
bevel the hardwood so the indicator plunger touches near the bottom of your
saw fence).

Clamp the assembly to your miter gauge (if necessary, shim the miter gauge
guide bar so it doesn't drift in the slot).

Raise the blade to full height and mark a tooth with a marker. Check the
blade by measuring the marked tooth nearest the front of the table, rotate
the blade so the marked tooth is at the back and measure again. If the
difference is more than .002-.003, adjust the blade to be parallel with the
miter slot.

After aligning the blade, reclamp the dial indicator rig in the miter gauge
so it will reach the fence (you can position the fence fairly close to the
blade). Measure the fence along its full length from the front of the table
to the back. It should vary no more than .005 and the back should be the
longest measurement so the work piece won't bind when being cut.

For around $20 and a little work, you should see an improvement.
"Jeff" wrote in message @o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>I got a new table saw (Powermatic 64 Artisan) and I'm having a tuning
> problem. When I push the lumber past the blade, the piece starts to
> turn away from the fence toward the blade. As a result, the back of
> the piece can be 1/16" of an inch narrower than the front. I can
> "correct" this problem with a feather guide, but I'd prefer to tune it
> correctly. I assume the problem lies with a slight misalignment of
> either the fence or the blade. With my primitive measuring tools -
> namely a combo square - both the blade and the fence seem aligned with
> the table. Any thoughts?
>
> BTW: The Accu-fence rocks! I can dial up 3" and it cuts 3". With my
> old saw, I could never trust the stupid guide. I measured each cut
> from blade to fence with my combo square.
>
> Jeff

Leon · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 967

"Jeff" wrote in message @h25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 25, 10:43 am, "Leon" wrote:
>> "Jeff" wrote in message
>>
>> The only place that you want to use a feather board is in front of the
>> blade, NOT the back side.
>
> I didn't specify it's location, but that's where I have it. See, cos I
> have this thing about taking a board to the mid section.

Ok then, Since you said, I can"correct" this problem with a feather guide,

If the feather board in the correct position solves the problem, your
technique is probably the problem.

Kevin · Joined: 05 Jan 2008 Posts: 47

Yep..that's exactly it.. for contractor type saws.. need to loosen trunion
bolts and move it around. For cabinet type saws.. loosen top and slide it
around. Loosen a very little and move in tiny increments. Remember.. we're
talking about .001" here.

On your fence hopefully you have some parallel to slot adjustments and also
perpendicular to table adjustments.

You might also want to look at the flatness of the top.

Also.. add in a homemade splitter if you need to remove the blade guard /
stock splitter. Get a chunk of 1/8" wide metal, cut a hole then slot in the
bottom to slip down onto the bolt that holds the blade guard inplace. Cut
the metal off about 1" above the table. You can make one that sticks 1/4"
and 2" if you want for thos times when you cut grooves. It's not as good as
a riving knive, but pretty close... and can significantly reduce kickback.

If you can picture all this then you have the info.. if not.. like I said,
see Kelly Mehler's books... I got one starting out and it's worth it.

"Chuck Hoffman" wrote in message $J41.11881@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
>I have a hunch either your blade is not parallel with the miter slot or the
>fence is not parallel with the blade.
>
> Here's how you can fix that for WAY LESS than the prices of some of the
> tools recommended by others. Get yourself an adequate dial indicator
> (Harbor Freight has them). Cut a square end on piece of narrow hardwood
> and screw the housing of the dial indicator to it (it would be better of
> you bevel the hardwood so the indicator plunger touches near the bottom of
> your saw fence).
>
> Clamp the assembly to your miter gauge (if necessary, shim the miter gauge
> guide bar so it doesn't drift in the slot).
>
> Raise the blade to full height and mark a tooth with a marker. Check the
> blade by measuring the marked tooth nearest the front of the table, rotate
> the blade so the marked tooth is at the back and measure again. If the
> difference is more than .002-.003, adjust the blade to be parallel with
> the miter slot.
>
> After aligning the blade, reclamp the dial indicator rig in the miter
> gauge so it will reach the fence (you can position the fence fairly close
> to the blade). Measure the fence along its full length from the front of
> the table to the back. It should vary no more than .005 and the back
> should be the longest measurement so the work piece won't bind when being
> cut.
>
> For around $20 and a little work, you should see an improvement.
> "Jeff" wrote in message
> @o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>I got a new table saw (Powermatic 64 Artisan) and I'm having a tuning
>> problem. When I push the lumber past the blade, the piece starts to
>> turn away from the fence toward the blade. As a result, the back of
>> the piece can be 1/16" of an inch narrower than the front. I can
>> "correct" this problem with a feather guide, but I'd prefer to tune it
>> correctly. I assume the problem lies with a slight misalignment of
>> either the fence or the blade. With my primitive measuring tools -
>> namely a combo square - both the blade and the fence seem aligned with
>> the table. Any thoughts?
>>
>> BTW: The Accu-fence rocks! I can dial up 3" and it cuts 3". With my
>> old saw, I could never trust the stupid guide. I measured each cut
>> from blade to fence with my combo square.
>>
>> Jeff
>
>

Swingman · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 497

"Jeff" wrote

> You have Jr.? I assume you think it was worth 133.00.

If you pay the bucks for a high quality tool, why not spend a fraction of
that to keep it operating at the peak of perfection? If you're really
serious about woodworking, it's indeed a valuable instrument to have in the
shop.

> How often do you
> use it?

For high quality tools that hold their setting, probably not that often "per
tool", but over the range of tools in the shop that benefit from tweaking
for best performance, probably more than you think. (It's amazing how often
a tool can take an accidental blow in a shop environment, necessitating a
tweak, here and there, for even the best of equipment).

It's also a good feeling, when starting a new project, one you've been
planning for months and just bought the wood for, to spend the time getting
everything tweaked just right in anticipation of milling that new stack ...
sort of a good karma, Zen, ying and yang, up your project chakra, kind of
thing. Smile

Hint: if you have a choice of dial indicators, consider upgrading to the
highest quality one you can afford ... when you start dealing in ten
thousandths of an inch, you'll probably be glad for extra little bit of
accuracy.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/14/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Garage_Woodworks · Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 74

"Jeff" wrote in message @h25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 25, 12:28 pm, "Garage_Woodworks" wrote:
>> "Jeff" wrote in message
>>
>> @o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

> You have Jr.? I assume you think it was worth 133.00. How often do you
> use it?

I think it is worth it's weight in gold. I use it before every project
session to check for alignment of various tools. My EB3 miter gauge
usually hangs on my peg board. Before I use it I can check for square
without making a single test cut.

I also make sure my jointer fence is square before squaring leg blanks.

You will be surprised how often you use it. For your case now it would be
a huge asset. You could check your fence front to back and know how far
out of wack (or not) it is (quickly and accurately w/o a single test cut).

--
www.garagewoodworks.com

Chuck Hoffman · Joined: 01 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

I should have added:

You can check for any bow in your fence with a dial indicator, too. Do the
setup for the fence test as I described above then check the fence along its
entire length. It should should not vary in flatness more than a couple
thousandths from front to back. If both ends are very close in measurement
and the middle has a deflection (one way or the other) of more than
..003-.004, you should find some way to flatten the fence.

One way is to add an auxiliary face using birch ply or melamine laminated
MDF. You may have to shim it (either on both ends or in the middle) to
remove the bow.

If you add an aux fence, you'll have to reset the zero point on your rails.
"Chuck Hoffman" wrote in message $J41.11881@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
>I have a hunch either your blade is not parallel with the miter slot or the
>fence is not parallel with the blade.
>
> Here's how you can fix that for WAY LESS than the prices of some of the
> tools recommended by others. Get yourself an adequate dial indicator
> (Harbor Freight has them). Cut a square end on piece of narrow hardwood
> and screw the housing of the dial indicator to it (it would be better of
> you bevel the hardwood so the indicator plunger touches near the bottom of
> your saw fence).
>
> Clamp the assembly to your miter gauge (if necessary, shim the miter gauge
> guide bar so it doesn't drift in the slot).
>
> Raise the blade to full height and mark a tooth with a marker. Check the
> blade by measuring the marked tooth nearest the front of the table, rotate
> the blade so the marked tooth is at the back and measure again. If the
> difference is more than .002-.003, adjust the blade to be parallel with
> the miter slot.
>
> After aligning the blade, reclamp the dial indicator rig in the miter
> gauge so it will reach the fence (you can position the fence fairly close
> to the blade). Measure the fence along its full length from the front of
> the table to the back. It should vary no more than .005 and the back
> should be the longest measurement so the work piece won't bind when being
> cut.
>
> For around $20 and a little work, you should see an improvement.
> "Jeff" wrote in message
> @o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>I got a new table saw (Powermatic 64 Artisan) and I'm having a tuning
>> problem. When I push the lumber past the blade, the piece starts to
>> turn away from the fence toward the blade. As a result, the back of
>> the piece can be 1/16" of an inch narrower than the front. I can
>> "correct" this problem with a feather guide, but I'd prefer to tune it
>> correctly. I assume the problem lies with a slight misalignment of
>> either the fence or the blade. With my primitive measuring tools -
>> namely a combo square - both the blade and the fence seem aligned with
>> the table. Any thoughts?
>>
>> BTW: The Accu-fence rocks! I can dial up 3" and it cuts 3". With my
>> old saw, I could never trust the stupid guide. I measured each cut
>> from blade to fence with my combo square.
>>
>> Jeff
>
>

Jeff · Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Posts: 95

On Feb 25, 6:00 pm, "Garage_Woodworks" wrote:
> "Jeff" wrote in message
>
> @h25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Feb 25, 12:28 pm, "Garage_Woodworks" wrote:
> >> "Jeff" wrote in message
>
> >>@o10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> > You have Jr.? I assume you think it was worth 133.00. How often do you
> > use it?
>
> I think it is worth it's weight in gold. I use it before every project
> session to check for alignment of various tools. My EB3 miter gauge
> usually hangs on my peg board. Before I use it I can check for square
> without making a single test cut.
>
> I also make sure my jointer fence is square before squaring leg blanks.
>
> You will be surprised how often you use it. For your case now it would be
> a huge asset. You could check your fence front to back and know how far
> out of wack (or not) it is (quickly and accurately w/o a single test cut).
>

Sold. I'll get one in the next billing cycle...

Jeff · Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Posts: 95

On Feb 25, 7:48 pm, "Chuck Hoffman" wrote:
> I should have added:
>
> You can check for any bow in your fence with a dial indicator, too. Do the
> setup for the fence test as I described above then check the fence along its
> entire length. It should should not vary in flatness more than a couple
> thousandths from front to back. If both ends are very close in measurement
> and the middle has a deflection (one way or the other) of more than
> .003-.004, you should find some way to flatten the fence.
>
> One way is to add an auxiliary face using birch ply or melamine laminated
> MDF. You may have to shim it (either on both ends or in the middle) to
> remove the bow.
>

Thanks. I used your method and found the blade is off by .02" The
front of the blade is closer to the fence.

Jeff

Garage_Woodworks · Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 74

"Swingman" wrote in message @giganews.com...

> sort of a good karma, Zen, ying and yang, up your project chakra, kind of
> thing. Smile

I like that! (I had to look up chakra )

>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 12/14/07
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
>

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